[00:09] cypromis (n=michal@host213-123-136-142.in-addr.btopenworld.com) joined #openser. [00:11] cypromis (n=michal@host213-123-136-142.in-addr.btopenworld.com) left irc: Read error: 131 (Connection reset by peer) [00:11] cypromis_ (n=michal@host213-123-136-142.in-addr.btopenworld.com) joined #openser. [00:20] NormB (n=NormB@smoothwall.goes.com) left irc: "Leaving" [00:29] toombaloomba (n=phph@do.you.like.my.frippers.com) joined #openser. [00:42] goldenear (n=goldenea@2001:6f8:392:1:213:2ff:fe4a:53a7) joined #openser. [00:42] Hi [00:42] I have a problem with auth and openser [00:43] I've enabled auth with mysql (I read a tutorial about this) [00:43] the problem is that reg/auth always fail [00:44] the problem seems to be with HA1 string calculation [00:44] could somebody help me ? [00:44] goldenear, sure [00:44] goldenear, So it never auths correct? [00:45] goldenear, what realm are you using, and what realm are you comparing against? [00:45] it does if I do not specify a password in my ua [00:46] goldenear, select * from subscriber where username = 'username'; pastebin me that output [00:52] goldenear (n=goldenea@2001:6f8:392:1:213:2ff:fe4a:53a7) left irc: [00:53] goldenear (n=goldenea@2001:6f8:392:1:213:2ff:fe4a:53a7) joined #openser. [00:56] goldenear, get my last message? [00:56] may be not... [00:57] I'm try to send you the outup in private [00:57] ok [01:00] CrazyTux[m]: are you still there ? [01:15] Nick change: cypromis_ -> cypromis [01:46] _VoiceMeUp_COM (n=_VoiceMe@145-27.mc.cite.net) joined #openser. [01:47] CunningPike (n=CunningP@dhcp-10-234.district.north-van.bc.ca) left irc: Remote closed the connection [02:16] osas, how goes it mate. [02:49] escribzz (n=escribzz@75-167-9-87.phnx.qwest.net) joined #openser. [03:04] escribzz (n=escribzz@75-167-9-87.phnx.qwest.net) left irc: Read error: 148 (No route to host) [03:05] plr__ (i=juhali@shell.evtek.fi) joined #openser. [03:10] plr_ (i=juhali@shell.evtek.fi) left irc: Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) [03:45] why when I try to change a user passwd with openserctl passwd I have this error : [03:45] ERROR 1054 (42S22) at line 1: Unknown column 'datetime_modified' in 'field list' [03:46] ? [04:01] goldenear, still here? [04:02] yep [04:03] my problem was simple that I disable the plaintext password creation in openserctlrc [04:03] simply* [04:03] ah alrighty [04:04] now I understand how it works :) [04:04] but I wonder : isn't is an advantage to store the passwd in plaintext ? [04:05] I mean... if I want to migrate my users from a domain to an other, then the realm will change [04:05] if I use plain passwords in the db, then I can change the realm without any problem, right ? [04:06] CrazyTux[m]: right ? [05:24] _Bilbo__ (n=bastian@mail.collax.com) joined #openser. [05:37] _Bilbo_ (n=bastian@62.206.217.68) left irc: Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) [06:06] _VoiceMeUp_COM (n=_VoiceMe@145-27.mc.cite.net) left irc: Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) [06:08] techie (n=gus@voip.routedsystems.com) joined #openser. [06:18] codestr0m (n=asura@207.135.120.85) left irc: Remote closed the connection [06:27] CunningPike (n=CunningP@S010600095b33697f.vc.shawcable.net) joined #openser. [06:35] L|NUX (n=linux@unaffiliated/lnux/x-10290) joined #openser. [06:38] dhakatel (n=root@58.65.224.5) joined #openser. [06:39] goldenear (n=goldenea@2001:6f8:392:1:213:2ff:fe4a:53a7) left irc: Connection reset by peer [06:39] goldenear (n=goldenea@2001:6f8:392:1:213:2ff:fe4a:53a7) joined #openser. [06:56] Nick change: ber__ -> ber_ [06:57] r_open (n=Administ@58.65.224.5) joined #openser. [06:58] Nick change: ber_ -> ber__ [06:59] Nick change: ber__ -> ber123 [07:00] escribzz (n=escribzz@VDSL-130-13-37-65.PHNX.QWEST.NET) joined #openser. [07:02] _0penser_ (n=Administ@58.65.224.5) joined #openser. [07:04] r_open (n=Administ@58.65.224.5) left #openser. [07:05] r_open (n=Administ@58.65.224.5) joined #openser. [07:05] r_open (n=Administ@58.65.224.5) left #openser. [07:15] Chris-NB (n=chris@ng1.kurtkrenn.com) joined #openser. [07:30] dhakatel (n=root@58.65.224.5) left #openser. [07:46] Defraz (n=t0tal@fw.fuzecore.com) left irc: Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) [08:01] Nick change: DoberMann[ZZZzzz -> DoberMann [08:10] stimpie (n=michiel@ip565faf27.direct-adsl.nl) joined #openser. [08:12] codestr0m (n=asura@207.135.120.85) joined #openser. [08:16] CunningPike (n=CunningP@S010600095b33697f.vc.shawcable.net) left irc: "And so, to bed" [08:34] L-info (n=l-info@165.34.101-84.rev.gaoland.net) joined #openser. [08:48] Is there any plan to change mi_xmlrpc to support new xmlrpc API ? [08:50] Just because i'm planning to do it ... so if anyway already started i would like to know it [08:56] Nick change: DoberMann -> DoberMann[PullA] [09:23] CrazyTux[m] (n=CrazyTux@cpe-24-162-48-94.houston.res.rr.com) left irc: Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) [09:45] L-info (n=l-info@165.34.101-84.rev.gaoland.net) left irc: Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) [09:50] DanB (n=dan@87.139.12.167) joined #openser. [09:51] Morning All! [09:53] morning! [09:54] morning codestr0m! [09:55] How's it going today DanB? [09:56] hopefully smooth ;-), what about your side? [09:56] Nick change: DoberMann[PullA] -> DoberMann [09:56] core systems are up.. a new box someone tossed at me won't pxe boot.. other than that. just fine [09:58] that's good to hear [09:59] Not sure how many are awake or around yet... anyone else here signed up for the development course in Paris? [10:07] henningw (n=henning@et-1-5.gw-nat.bs.ka.oneandone.net) joined #openser. [10:14] codestr0m: I am... [10:24] sob0l (n=sobol@emi250.internetdsl.tpnet.pl) joined #openser. [10:44] Yeah.. I'll be there.. there's another person in here I kno that'll be there.. , but who the other 11 people are.. no clue [10:45] codestr0m (n=asura@207.135.120.85) left #openser. [10:51] I'm not, i think my boss will not pay it :) [10:53] codestr0m (n=asura@207.135.120.85) joined #openser. [10:53] martin--> my boss will not pay also, but I will... [10:54] DanB: had the first mouse lockup in months. anyone else say they are going? [10:58] cypromis (n=michal@host213-123-136-142.in-addr.btopenworld.com) left irc: [11:08] DanB (n=dan@87.139.12.167) left irc: Remote closed the connection [11:13] DanB (n=dan@87.139.12.167) joined #openser. [11:57] DanB (n=dan@87.139.12.167) left irc: Remote closed the connection [12:01] DanB (n=dan@87.139.12.167) joined #openser. [12:28] Not sure if there are any openbsd guys in there, but a good quote in reading about their philosophy.. [12:28] Most users think, if it aint broke dont fix it. [12:28] They cannot see security problems having any effect on them, so they assume they do not have any [12:31] L|NUX (n=linux@unaffiliated/lnux/x-10290) left irc: Read error: 131 (Connection reset by peer) [12:42] DanB (n=dan@87.139.12.167) left irc: Remote closed the connection [12:42] yeah it works [12:42] Action: martin-- is happy [12:43] linux-ha heatbeat2 + openser under sparc solaris [12:43] heh [12:45] dhakatel (n=root@58.65.224.5) joined #openser. [12:46] why when I try to change a user passwd with openserctl passwd I have this error : [12:46] ERROR 1054 (42S22) at line 1: Unknown column 'datetime_modified' in 'field list' [12:47] DanB (n=dan@87.139.12.167) joined #openser. [12:47] serweb is disabled (# HAS_SERWEB="yes") in opensercrtlrc [12:47] Is this a bug ? [12:51] is a mysql backend for the dialog modul planned? [13:01] <_0penser_> martin--: Umean to save session data in mysql? [13:01] yes [13:03] <_0penser_> martin--: Daialog module use shm memory to save session information and I think it is so efficient than database [13:03] <_0penser_> martin--: specially for data store and retrive [13:06] yeah, but so you can not use the dialog modul in a clustered/failover environment [13:06] goldenear: it is not a bug. u must activate it if you have the serweb tables installed, because the way script is behaving for creating new users will be different, this is the only difference... [13:07] <_0penser_> why not? [13:07] _0penser_: because you can not move shm memory from one node to another? [13:07] :) [13:09] <_0penser_> It is possible u need to do something extra [13:09] <_0penser_> ;) [13:09] fine [13:09] :) [13:11] DanB: I dont have serweb tables installed (I don't plan tu use serweb) [13:11] goldenear: then u don't have to worry changing this setting [13:12] DanB, you have missed the begining of my question :) [13:12] why when I try to change a user passwd with openserctl passwd I have this error : [13:12] ERROR 1054 (42S22) at line 1: Unknown column 'datetime_modified' in 'field list' [13:12] goldenear: sorry about that, I was offline... [13:12] I've seen that :D [13:13] that'w why I repeat it ;) [13:17] column 'datetime_modified' seems to be specific to serweb (according to this http://www.openser.org/dokuwiki/doku.php/database:1.2.x#subscriber ) [13:20] goldenear: might be that's why I don't get the error, with or without settig HAS_SERWEB="x" [13:21] could be a bug... can u post it on website? [13:21] DanB: have you serweb tables installed ? [13:22] yup: I installed everything what comes for free ;-) [13:23] ok then it is a bug :) [13:24] No I can't post in the bug report web [13:25] goldenear: then just send a mail to dev or users mailing lists... [13:35] done :) [14:02] osas (n=nnnnnnnn@CABLE-72-53-75-252.cia.com) left irc: Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) [14:34] L|NUX (n=linux@unaffiliated/lnux/x-10290) joined #openser. [14:44] oej (n=olle@apollo.webway.se) joined #openser. [14:58] cypromis (n=michal@87-194-69-156.bethere.co.uk) joined #openser. [15:18] dhakatel (n=root@58.65.224.5) left #openser. [15:19] hwaastad (n=hwaastad@084202200040.customer.alfanett.no) joined #openser. [15:22] L|NUX (n=linux@unaffiliated/lnux/x-10290) left irc: [15:32] Chris-NB (n=chris@ng1.kurtkrenn.com) left irc: Read error: 148 (No route to host) [15:46] henningw (n=henning@et-1-5.gw-nat.bs.ka.oneandone.net) left irc: Remote closed the connection [15:59] codestr0m (n=asura@207.135.120.85) left irc: Remote closed the connection [16:00] codestr0m (n=asura@207.135.120.85) joined #openser. [16:07] what machine(s) i need for 50.000+ subscribers? [16:11] hwaastad (n=hwaastad@084202200040.customer.alfanett.no) left #openser. [16:24] martin--: preferably a cray [16:25] 2 crays [16:25] one to hold the customer support entrance door open [16:25] the other one to hold the customer support exit door open [16:27] ha ha.. probably not the answer he's look for... in a couple years.. maybe bluegen will be available as well [16:27] martin--: take a look at the recent openser benchmarks and try to figure out a number based on that [16:33] since not all customers will be activated at once a good clustering concept would be ok [16:34] so i can add more nodes later [16:40] martin--: are you talking about HPC or something else? [16:41] codestr0m: I think we wants to run it on a wrt54g cluster \o\ [16:41] cute. I'd believe you if you had said PS3 ;) if you there have some interesting things coming out [16:42] s/if you there/they [16:55] haha [16:55] _0penser_ (n=Administ@58.65.224.5) left #openser. [16:55] codestr0m: yes. i'm talking about 1024cores for 50k subscribers :< [16:55] hpp [16:55] high performance phoning [16:56] 1024 cores just for OpenSER? D: [16:56] martin--: you know they do have SLUG based clusters as well... not quite as powerful as the PS3, but in align with the wrt-54g models [16:57] Sweeper: making jokes [16:57] :) [16:57] codestr0m: ahha [16:57] yeah, i put thousands of wrt's in our datacenter [16:57] ehhe [16:57] do the maths first [16:58] anywho.. if you read what I said above.. you can figure out what may suit your needs [16:58] 50k subs = how many registered phones or endpoints in parallel ? [16:58] codestr0m: yeah ok [16:58] I guess your db requirements will mostly be your problem [16:58] cypromis: 50k [16:58] openser itself needs close to no processing power [16:58] they all will be registered [16:58] Sweeper: have you heard about the fiber backplane they developed for the SLUB based micro cluster? [16:59] s/SLUB/SLUG [16:59] no XD [16:59] Action: Sweeper googles [16:59] Action: codestr0m snickers [17:00] Sweeper: that's what you get for making fun of martin-- [17:00] Action: martin-- giggles [17:00] cypromis: so you think the db will be the bigger problem? [17:01] yes [17:01] it seems to allways end up to be the problem [17:01] :D [17:03] tcseke (n=chatzill@22-36.adsl.etel.hu) joined #openser. [17:05] blackk (i=bblack@38-118-35-20.rapiddsl.net) joined #openser. [17:06] bah! [17:06] mostly caused bu lack of proper rdbms know how [17:06] but thats a different stoy [17:07] hi guys, how do I get Radius accounting with OK events instead of INVITE ones (so I know when somebody picked up)? [17:10] i could do a benchmark with sispak in registering to the sip proxy [17:10] with database backend [17:10] :) [17:11] just remember reregistration and updates and so on and so forth [17:11] and let it run for like 2 weeks so you can see the growth of info in your acc tablesw [17:12] blackk: it is so by default, the radacc_packet will be sent only when the person picks up [17:13] blackk: if the person will be not pick up u will get accounting_fail packet [17:14] cypromis: i already had a problem with the acc table [17:14] acc table will be moved every 1hour to a central oracle db [17:14] :) [17:17] i could also disable accounting [17:18] you could disable calling as well [17:18] wuld save a lot of cpu cycles [17:18] :) [17:20] yea, then just do accounting with tcpdump, on a hub with your openser server :D [17:21] oej (n=olle@apollo.webway.se) left irc: [17:22] sob0l (n=sobol@emi250.internetdsl.tpnet.pl) left irc: "Leaving" [17:27] DeeJayTwo (n=deejay2@office.abi.ca) left irc: "HEY! Must be the BitchX!" [17:28] account will be done with cisco platform, so no need for accounting with openser :) [17:30] I'm too lazy to look. is there a port for openser to openbsd? [17:30] it even compiles on solaris [17:31] heh [17:31] so it should compile under opensd? [17:31] martin--: k. .and weren't you saying something about wanting to swtich though.. cause it something was borked? [17:31] solaris is borked [17:31] that's the problem [17:32] umm. you'd have to be more specific.. [17:32] 1. the most stable openser releases till now were broken with solaris [17:33] mainly problem with makefile or some includes [17:33] osas (n=nnnnnnnn@CABLE-72-53-75-252.cia.com) joined #openser. [17:33] see mailinglist [17:33] 1.1.1 and 1.2.0 worked fine [17:33] the makefile of 1.2.0 was the first release without any problems [17:34] the 2nd problem is some missing packages in small solaris installations [17:34] gcc, yacc, flex... [17:34] next problem is to isntall some other useful things for it [17:34] heartbeat2 :) [17:35] dude. you have carp and pf :P [17:35] carp in solaris? [17:35] oopse. maybe not.. hmm.. [17:35] in solaris you have "sun java cluster blahbleh" [17:35] a install file of 500mbyte :) [17:36] ha ha ha... [17:36] the word java makes me shit [17:36] high availibity with java? [17:36] next problem: when you have persons in the company, who dont know something about compiling in *nix [17:36] you have a big problem: what happens, when you die [17:36] :) [17:37] you have support contracts :P [17:37] not for openser on solaris [17:37] :) [17:37] you send patches upstream [17:37] and request binaries be built.. [17:37] i've wrote a howto for installing openser on solaris, it's a long text :) [17:38] link? [17:38] internal in our wiki [17:38] oh.. [17:38] it's something like [17:38] wget fielxyz.tar.gz (or maybe a actual version) [17:38] rm -rf / [17:38] gtar xblah [17:38] ;) [17:38] cd blah [17:38] ./configure --withoutblabvla [17:38] gmake [17:38] oh [17:38] first [17:38] pkgadd -d gmake [17:38] :P [17:39] k.. no need to flood the channel :) we are already noisey [17:39] if you want. email it to me. I'm curious [17:39] wait, the most crazy thing is: ln -sf /usr/sbin/install /usr/sbin/ginstall [17:40] :) [17:40] well. what that is.. is the setting up of a build env under solaris.. [17:40] I've said it before. if you're from the linux world. it's a bitch [17:40] problem is, It's a company with a opinion of using closed source things [17:40] paths have to be adjusted.. and tons of other little things [17:40] using appliances [17:40] using only cisco [17:41] using siemens dslams [17:41] etc. [17:41] talk to them about saving 100¬K and they'll listen [17:42] its not a bitch [17:42] btw [17:42] its a nice and easy adjustable to multiple different environments open operating system [17:42] cisco wants to certify openser for using with its cisco pgw 2200 platform [17:42] and not a lame duck that is not posix compliant [17:42] you knew this? [17:42] yes [17:43] martin--: we are trying to get openser fully compilable with sunstudio [17:43] and integrate it natively in Sol 0 [17:43] 10 [17:43] mhh [17:43] Action: cypromis has an allergy to words starting with g [17:43] how long will this take? [17:43] a bit [17:44] Action: codestr0m has an allergry to words ending in bsd [17:44] hah [17:44] we have cisco pgw 2200 as main switch between pstn and voip [17:44] shit happens [17:44] :) [17:44] Defraz (n=t0tal@fw.fuzecore.com) joined #openser. [17:44] yeah, you're right [17:44] :) [17:45] cypromis: you guys run postgres as well. I hear the performance on soliaris is nice... [17:46] i have to decide in the next two weeks: using of openser on solaris or linux [17:46] not easy [17:46] :/ [17:46] codestr0m: the q. is with which hat on [17:46] yes if it comes to my own company doing systems or cable operators and isp's [17:47] no in regards to my current customer who loves debian and my1stsql [17:47] martin--: I prefer soalris any time [17:47] I seem to have a week spot for just works systems [17:48] weak even [17:48] and besides, you can just go with the gcc version for now [17:49] and than upgrade when we get the sunstudio top optimised embedded into solaris/smf/whatever one ready [17:49] and who will integrade heartbeat2? :) [17:49] into what ? [17:50] solaris [17:50] I use heartbeat2 at a customer [17:50] with solaris [17:50] that was done by the heartbeat2 guys [17:50] but if you want to be cheeky [17:50] yeah, but heartbeat 2.0.8 doesnt work [17:50] just use Sun Cluster 3.2 [17:50] i'm not able zu compile it [17:50] compile it with ? [17:51] gcc 3.4.3? [17:51] what does not work there ? [17:52] what is the error you are getting [17:52] i'll tell you tomorrow [17:52] although that is probably rather a solaris or heartbeat channel discussion [17:52] :) [17:52] k [17:52] gotta go home now [17:56] Vulpyne (n=vulpyne@sta-207-174-202-66.rockynet.com) joined #openser. [18:18] DeeJayTwo (n=deejay2@148-253.sh.cgocable.ca) joined #openser. [18:18] hi [18:19] how do I tell to openser to what server IP I want to send the registration and communications? [18:19] (from the default openser.cfg file) [18:22] Nix (n=Nix@81.213.125.220) joined #openser. [18:23] CunningPike (n=CunningP@dhcp-10-234.district.north-van.bc.ca) joined #openser. [18:27] listen=udp:ip [18:27] i think? [18:39] DoberMann_ (n=james@AToulouse-156-1-181-150.w90-38.abo.wanadoo.fr) joined #openser. [18:43] DoberMann (n=james@AToulouse-156-1-92-237.w90-30.abo.wanadoo.fr) left irc: Read error: 145 (Connection timed out) [18:47] cayorde (n=flexable@host184-111-dynamic.17-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) joined #openser. [18:59] magikxx (n=tawandax@209.88.93.62) joined #openser. [19:00] anyone with a sample config file for openser-1.2 with radius support. [19:01] dustee : I meant redirection... I want my proxy to send signalling and rtp to a remote server. [19:02] But always thru the proxy [19:14] Defraz_ (i=t0tal@63.228.246.245) joined #openser. [19:21] Defraz_ (i=t0tal@63.228.246.245) left irc: "Trillian (http://www.ceruleanstudios.com" [19:24] Defraz (n=t0tal@fw.fuzecore.com) left irc: Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) [19:28] Defraz (n=t0tal@fw.fuzecore.com) joined #openser. [19:28] escribzz (n=escribzz@VDSL-130-13-37-65.PHNX.QWEST.NET) left irc: Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) [19:31] magikxx (n=tawandax@209.88.93.62) left irc: "Leaving." [19:42] codestr0m (n=asura@207.135.120.85) left irc: Remote closed the connection [19:47] tcseke (n=chatzill@22-36.adsl.etel.hu) left irc: "ChatZilla 0.9.78.1 [Firefox 2.0.0.3/2007030919]" [19:49] sob0l (n=sobol@pm252-75.piastlan.net) joined #openser. [19:49] Does the LCR module actually try to load in all the stuff from the database when the module starts, rather than doinga query per session start? [19:58] codestr0m (n=asura@207.135.120.85) joined #openser. [20:02] yup [20:04] osas, hows it going. [20:05] busy with rtpproxy ... [20:07] osas, I'm having problems with that too. [20:07] osas, what problems are you having? [20:08] sbc w/ reINVITEs [20:54] QbY___ (n=Kelvin@66.236.241.67.ptr.us.xo.net) joined #openser. [20:54] which module is is_method in? [20:54] disregard [21:09] Nix (n=Nix@81.213.125.220) left irc: Remote closed the connection [21:16] I don't want my proxy to accept anybody but I'd like it to send the register to another server...is it possible? [21:16] or do I have to register the proxy and let it manage the registration of local devices? [21:18] sob0l (n=sobol@pm252-75.piastlan.net) left irc: Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) [21:24] stimpie (n=michiel@ip565faf27.direct-adsl.nl) left irc: "Leaving" [21:32] both options are valid. it is up to you :-) [21:32] cypromis (n=michal@87-194-69-156.bethere.co.uk) left irc: [21:46] cayorde (n=flexable@host184-111-dynamic.17-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) left irc: "Leaving" [21:46] NormB (n=NormB@smoothwall.goes.com) joined #openser. [22:19] simon73 (n=hagbad73@dslb-084-056-113-181.pools.arcor-ip.net) joined #openser. [22:19] simon73 (n=hagbad73@dslb-084-056-113-181.pools.arcor-ip.net) left #openser. [22:23] osas, I'm having a problem where the ON REPLY dosent have the correct RTP contact address [22:23] osas, 1.2, I cant seem to get the branch nat stuff right [22:23] osas, any ideas? [22:23] #quit [22:23] Ãerr.. [22:23] DeeJayTwo (n=deejay2@148-253.sh.cgocable.ca) left irc: "BitchX: strong enough for a man, pH-balanced for a woman" [22:24] the first INVITE has the right contact, GATEWAY -> OPENSER -> UAC setup is fine, but ON REPLY (200 OK) from OPENSER -> Gateway, keeps the contact c= of the UAC, yet it should adjust for nat [22:24] osas, any ideas? [23:00] DanB (n=dan@87.139.12.167) left irc: Remote closed the connection [23:02] Defraz (n=t0tal@fw.fuzecore.com) left irc: Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) [23:08] Defraz (n=t0tal@fw.fuzecore.com) joined #openser. [23:22] is it possible to use the dispatcher with multiple providers when those providers require authentication (rather than just IP restriction)? [23:37] QbY___ (n=Kelvin@66.236.241.67.ptr.us.xo.net) left irc: "Trillian (http://www.ceruleanstudios.com" [23:45] DeeJayTwo (n=deejay2@148-253.sh.cgocable.ca) joined #openser. [23:45] hi [23:59] Nick change: DoberMann_ -> DoberMann[ZZZzzz [00:00] --- Fri Apr 27 2007